Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519

04/11/2006 01:30 PM House FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to 08:30 AM 04/12/06 --
+ HB 308 CALLER ID HACKERS TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Canceled>
+ HB 447 BROADCASTING PROMOTING CHARITABLE GAMING TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 447(FIN) Out of Committee
+= HB 470 MANDATORY USE OF HEADLIGHTS TELECONFERENCED
<Bill Hearing Postponed>
+ HB 475 PUB EMPLOYEE & TEACHER RETIREMENT & SBS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 485 STATE PHARMACISTS/DOCTORS/AUDITOR EXEMPT TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+= HB 93 DENTISTS AND DENTAL HYGIENISTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 93(FIN) Out of Committee
                   HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                       April 11, 2006                                                                                           
                          1:42 p.m.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  called the House Finance Committee  meeting to                                                                  
order at 1:42:25 PM.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Jim Holm                                                                                                         
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                       
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Heath  Hilyard,  Staff,  Representative   Tom  Anderson;  Rick                                                                  
Urion,   Director,  Occupational   Licensing,  Department   of                                                                  
Community and  Economic Development; David Logan,  DMD, Alaska                                                                  
Dental   Society;  Mila   Cosgrove,   Director,  Division   of                                                                  
Personnel,   Department   of   Administration;   Art   Chance,                                                                  
Director, Labor  Relations, Department of  Administration; Jim                                                                  
Duncan,  Alaska  State Employee  Association;  Craig  Johnson,                                                                  
Staff,  Representative  Lesil  McGuire; Jeff  Prather,  Gaming                                                                  
Group, Tax Division, Department of Revenue                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Robert  Robertson,  DMD,  Alaska Dental  Society;  Jim  Towle,                                                                  
Executive Director,  Alaska Dental Society,  Anchorage; George                                                                  
Shaffer, DMD, Alaska  Dental Society, Ketchikan; Ric  Schmidt,                                                                  
General  Manager,  KNOM-AM/FM,  Nome;  Dennis  Bookey,  Morris                                                                  
Communications,   Anchorage;   Stuart   Whyte,   KFMJ   Radio,                                                                  
Ketchikan; Vicki Muzik, KRMJ Radio, Ketchikan                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 93     "An Act relating to dentists and dental hygienists                                                                    
          and  the  Board of  Dental  Examiners;  establishing                                                                  
          certain  committees  for  the  discipline  and  peer                                                                  
          review  of  dentists;  excluding   the  adjudicatory                                                                  
          proceedings  of the  Board of  Dental Examiners  and                                                                  
          its  committees  from the  Administrative  Procedure                                                                  
          Act  and  from the  jurisdiction  of  the office  of                                                                  
          administrative   hearings;  and  providing   for  an                                                                  
          effective date."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB  93 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee  with a                                                                  
          "no recommendation"  and with fiscal  note #1 by the                                                                  
          Department   of Commerce,   Community  and  Economic                                                                  
          Development.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
HB 485    "An Act amending the State Personnel Act to place                                                                     
          in  the exempt  service pharmacists  and  physicians                                                                  
          employed  in  the Department  of  Health and  Social                                                                  
          Services  or in  the Department  of Corrections  and                                                                  
          corporate  income tax forensic auditors  employed by                                                                  
          the   division   of   the  Department   of   Revenue                                                                  
          principally   responsible  for  the  collection  and                                                                  
          enforcement   of  state  taxes  who   specialize  in                                                                  
          apportionment   analysis   and   tax   shelters   of                                                                  
          multistate  corporate taxpayers;  and providing  for                                                                  
          an effective date."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          HB  485 was  REPORTED out  of Committee  with a  "no                                                                  
          recommendation"  and  with  zero fiscal  note #1  by                                                                  
          the Department  of Commerce, Community  and Economic                                                                  
          Development,  fiscal  note #3 by  the Department  of                                                                  
          Corrections,  three new  indeterminate fiscal  notes                                                                  
          by  the Department  of Health  and Social  Services,                                                                  
          and   a  new  indeterminate   fiscal  note   by  the                                                                  
          Department of Revenue.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 447    "An Act relating to the use of broadcasting to                                                                        
          promote raffles and lotteries."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB 447 was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do                                                                     
          pass"  recommendation and  with zero fiscal  note #1                                                                  
          by the Department of Revenue.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 475    "An Act describing contributions to the health                                                                        
          reimbursement    arrangement   plan    for   certain                                                                  
          teachers    and   public    employees;    clarifying                                                                  
          eligibility    for   membership   in   that   health                                                                  
          reimbursement  arrangement  plan;  relating  to  the                                                                  
          'administrator'    of    the    Public    Employees'                                                                  
          Retirement  System of Alaska;  and providing  for an                                                                  
          effective date."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          HB 475 was heard and HELD in Committee for further                                                                    
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 470    "An Act relating to the mandatory use of motor                                                                        
          vehicle headlights."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          HB 470 was POSTPONED to a later date.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HB 308    "An Act relating to false caller identification."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          HB 470 was WAIVED out of Committee.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:42:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 93                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  relating to dentists  and dental hygienists  and                                                                  
     the  Board  of  Dental  Examiners;  establishing  certain                                                                  
     committees   for  the  discipline  and  peer   review  of                                                                  
     dentists;  excluding the adjudicatory proceedings  of the                                                                  
     Board  of Dental Examiners  and its  committees from  the                                                                  
     Administrative  Procedure Act  and from the  jurisdiction                                                                  
     of the office  of administrative hearings;  and providing                                                                  
     for an effective date."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HEATH HILYARD, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE  TOM ANDERSON, noted that                                                                  
he  went  over the  adopted  work  draft,  Version C,  at  the                                                                  
previous meeting.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer opened public testimony.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:44:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. ROBERT ROBERTSON,  DMD, ALASKA DENTAL SOCIETY,  offered to                                                                  
answer questions.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DR. GEORGE  SHAFFER,  DMD, ALASKA  DENTAL SOCIETY,  KETCHIKAN,                                                                  
spoke to the  purpose of the bill.   The bill strengthens  the                                                                  
action  of the  Board  of Dental  Examiners  allowing them  to                                                                  
deal with  discipline in a  more-timely manner, ensuring  that                                                                  
all  of the  testimony  and records  that  are  included in  a                                                                  
complaint  are viewed.   The bill would  also allow the  board                                                                  
to  enter the  process  at an  earlier stage  when  complaints                                                                  
from  patients  are  more  benign.     He  offered  to  answer                                                                  
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:47:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM  TOWLE,   EXECUTIVE  DIRECTOR,   ALASKA  DENTAL   SOCIETY,                                                                  
ANCHORAGE, offered to answer questions.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:48:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID   LOGAN,  DMD,   ALASKA  DENTAL   SOCIETY,  echoed   Dr.                                                                  
Shaffer's   comments.    He  related   that  the   bill  would                                                                  
establish  peer review,  a  feature currently  not  available.                                                                  
It will allow the  board to collectively use its  expertise on                                                                  
dental  matters.   Currently,  the board  is  limited in  that                                                                  
only one  board member  is allowed  to review  a case.   HB 93                                                                  
would allow the  public to bring more cases to  the board.  It                                                                  
would   allow   for   earlier   intervention    for   impaired                                                                  
practitioners.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:50:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICK URION,  DIRECTOR, OCCUPATIONAL  LICENSING, DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                  
COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC  DEVELOPMENT, testified  that the Board                                                                  
of Dental  Examiners  met last month  and 7  out of 8  opposed                                                                  
the  bill.   He  read an  email  from  a board  member,  which                                                                  
implied that  attorneys want dentists  to think that  the bill                                                                  
will rid them of  occupational licensing.  He  related that in                                                                  
the past  ten years  there have  been 195  cases, 40 of  which                                                                  
were  brought   against  two   dentists,  and  95   that  were                                                                  
dismissed without  action.  He discussed how the  current peer                                                                  
review operates,  referring to  a Dental Complaint  Flow Chart                                                                  
(copy on file.)   He stated that  the purpose of licensure  is                                                                  
for public safety.  He strongly opposed the bill.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly asked Mr.  Urion if he wrote  the fiscal                                                                  
note.   Mr. Urion  replied that  he did not.   Co-Chair  Meyer                                                                  
noted that  it has  changed considerably.   Mr. Urion  pointed                                                                  
out that the bill has changed considerably.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  asked how  the  bill differs  from  how                                                                  
physicians  self regulate.   Mr.  Urion said  that doctors  do                                                                  
exactly what the dentists are doing now.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:56:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault referred  to the  new fiscal  note and  the                                                                  
expense for  travel, which  is the same  as in the old  fiscal                                                                  
note.   He wondered  where the  funds would  come from  to pay                                                                  
for those costs.   Mr. Urion said that the law  requires those                                                                  
costs to be paid by dentists.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer asked  if they  are receipt  paid.  Mr.  Urion                                                                  
said yes.  All costs are paid by the dentists.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:58:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hilyard addressed  Mr. Urion's  concerns.   He  mentioned                                                                  
the sponsor's  work with the  Division throughout  the process                                                                  
of re-writing the  bill.  He noted that it is  a difference of                                                                  
philosophy.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  asked why the  bill's approach is  better than                                                                  
the status  quo.  Mr.  Hilyard stated  that the bill  provides                                                                  
for a better public process.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:00:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  asked for  more information  about  the                                                                  
various models.   Mr. Hilyard said  he is not familiar  enough                                                                  
to  speak about  them.   Representative  Kelly  asked why  the                                                                  
board is  so opposed to  this bill.   Mr. Hilyard referred  to                                                                  
an email  from a dental  board member  from North Pole,  which                                                                  
says  the  board  takes no  official  position  on  the  bill.                                                                  
Representative  Kelly asked if there is a split  in the dental                                                                  
society.   Mr. Hilyard deferred  to Mr. Towle to address  that                                                                  
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:03:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Towle reported  that  there  is  no division  within  the                                                                  
Alaska Dental  Society regarding  this bill.   He referred  to                                                                  
an email,  which states  that the board  takes no position  on                                                                  
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  asked Dr. Logan to comment.  Dr.  Logan opined                                                                  
that all board  members he talked  to spoke in support  of the                                                                  
legislature.   He noted  that dentists  do  not feel that  the                                                                  
board is  out to  get them.   Speaking as  a board member,  he                                                                  
stated  that  the board  takes  a  balanced  view.   He  cited                                                                  
problems  with the  board  not getting  information  regarding                                                                  
investigations.   He addressed  the peer review for  organized                                                                  
dentistry,  a  panel  of  board  members  that  hears  a  case                                                                  
itself, usually regarding minor matters.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:07:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly asked for  comments on why  dentists are                                                                  
moving  in a  different  direction than  doctors.   Dr.  Logan                                                                  
could  only  speak  from  the  dentists'   perspective.    The                                                                  
largest change  is that peer review  would be opened  up.  The                                                                  
board would now  hear cases earlier in the process  and direct                                                                  
them  to a  peer  review  or disciplinary  committee  or  full                                                                  
investigative  process.    The  investigators   now  are  well                                                                  
trained, but not qualified to assess dental matters.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:09:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault asked  if the  current ruling  is that  the                                                                  
finding has  to come back  to the board  after 120 days.   Dr.                                                                  
Logan said  that is correct.   Co-Chair Chenault asked  if the                                                                  
concern is that  board members don't know what  has been going                                                                  
on.  Dr.  Logan explained the  current system.   Investigators                                                                  
present  the  findings  and  recommendations   and  the  board                                                                  
votes,  having never  heard about  the case  previously.   The                                                                  
new  program is  that the  board would  be aware  of the  case                                                                  
from  the beginning  and direct  it to  the best  place to  be                                                                  
dealt with,  then the case  would come  back to the  board for                                                                  
approval of the  decision.  Co-Chair Chenault  summarized that                                                                  
currently  the board  is not  given much  information and  the                                                                  
bill would allow for access to more information.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:12:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  asked if  a due  process problem  is                                                                  
created because  some on  the board  may investigate  and then                                                                  
vote.  Dr. Logan deferred to Dr. Shaffer.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Shaffer  related that under  the present system  the board                                                                  
operates under  the Administrator Procedures Act  (APA).  This                                                                  
gives the  board the ability to  look at evidence early  on in                                                                  
the  process  or to  refer  it to  an  investigator.   In  the                                                                  
present  system,  there  is  a  problem   with  reserving  the                                                                  
board's  independence.   Currently, the  board cannot  see any                                                                  
evidence.   The board does  not sit as  an appeals body.   The                                                                  
appeals  body  goes to  the  Superior  Court.   That  was  the                                                                  
driving force  behind the bill.   The present system  does not                                                                  
allow the  board to  participate earlier  in order to  protect                                                                  
the  public.   The bill  would  allow for  the  process to  be                                                                  
defined outside of the Administrative Procedures Act.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:17:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula asked  if currently  the board  makes                                                                  
decisions that  can be appealed.   Dr. Shaffer said  according                                                                  
to  the  APA, the  appeal  is  to  the Superior  Court.    The                                                                  
Department says  the appeal is  back to the Department.   This                                                                  
is a difference of opinion.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula asked  if the  board is the  original                                                                  
decision  maker regarding  suspended  licenses.   Dr.  Shaffer                                                                  
said that  is correct, but  for many years  the board  has not                                                                  
been  allowed  to  see  evidence.    Representative   Kerttula                                                                  
recalled  that the  AG's office  would bring  the evidence  to                                                                  
the  board  after   an  investigation  was  complete,   and  a                                                                  
decision would  be made.   She asked if  the new system  would                                                                  
create due process  problems.  Dr. Shaffer replied  that under                                                                  
the  bill,  there   would  be  a  single  person,   the  board                                                                  
president,  who would do  a triage, and  who could be  recused                                                                  
from the process.   The rest of  the board members  would have                                                                  
the  evidence and  then  make the  decision.   The  Department                                                                  
maintains that the board cannot see the evidence.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Shaffer  explained  that   in  the  bill  there  are  two                                                                  
committees,  the  peer review  committee  and  a  disciplinary                                                                  
committee,  both of which  can be  made up  of members  of the                                                                  
board.   The board  can also  call on other  dentists to  help                                                                  
them with  the process.  Then  the board would make  the final                                                                  
decision.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  summarized   Dr.  Shaffer's  concern                                                                  
about  lack  of  information   to  the  board.    Dr.  Shaffer                                                                  
concurred.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly asked  how other  states deal with  this                                                                  
issue.   Dr. Logan reported  that there  is a huge  variation.                                                                  
Most states have a peer review process.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:22:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  thought   that  the  board  might  have  a                                                                  
variety of  opinions on  the bill.  Mr.  Logan said  the board                                                                  
is not allowed to take a position on legislation.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Weyhrauch  asked   if  the  committee   could                                                                  
request  the board  to  take an  opinion.   Co-Chair  Chenault                                                                  
thought it would be a personal opinion.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:24:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster MOVED  to REPORT CSHB  93 (FIN)  out of                                                                  
committee    with   individual    recommendations   and    the                                                                  
accompanying fiscal note.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  OBJECTED.   He spoke  to  reservations                                                                  
related  to  the  Division  of  Occupational  Licensing.    He                                                                  
opined  that  something  in  Alaska  about  licensing  is  not                                                                  
working.  He wondered what the root of the problem is.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Stoltze  also  spoke   of  a  concern   about                                                                  
licensing and the bill.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  said there  is  no reason  to  hold the  bill                                                                  
over.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch said he does not know  what the bill                                                                  
does,  either.    Representative  Kerttula  related  that  her                                                                  
experience  with occupation  licensing  is that  they do  have                                                                  
all of the  information at their  hearings.   She  also voiced                                                                  
concerned about the bill.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:28:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker WITHDREW his  objection to moving  CSHB
93 from committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CSHB  93  (FIN) was  REPORTED  out  of Committee  with  a  "no                                                                  
recommendation"  and with fiscal note #1 by the  Department of                                                                  
Commerce, Community and Economic Development.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:28:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
At-ease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:30:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 485                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act amending  the State  Personnel Act  to place  in                                                                  
     the exempt  service pharmacists  and physicians  employed                                                                  
     in the  Department of  Health and  Social Services  or in                                                                  
     the Department  of Corrections  and corporate  income tax                                                                  
     forensic  auditors   employed  by  the  division  of  the                                                                  
     Department  of Revenue  principally  responsible for  the                                                                  
     collection   and   enforcement   of   state   taxes   who                                                                  
     specialize  in apportionment  analysis  and tax  shelters                                                                  
     of multistate  corporate taxpayers; and providing  for an                                                                  
     effective date."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  noted the  seven fiscal  notes  that would  be                                                                  
addressed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JIM DUNCAN,  ALASKA STATE EMPLOYEE  ASSOCIATION, responded  to                                                                  
a question from  Co-Chair Meyer,    Mr. Duncan  commented on a                                                                  
letter  sent to the  administration.    He  noted that  he had                                                                  
only  a  brief  opportunity  to  review  the administration's                                                                   
response.  He related  that the April 6 letter  by Art Chance,                                                                  
Director,  Labor  Relations,  Department   of  Administration,                                                                  
complimented his testimony on the bill.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Duncan  stated that  he  did not  believe  that  removing                                                                  
these    jobs    from   the    classification    system    was                                                                  
unconstitutional.   He also  clarified his understanding  that                                                                  
legislators  maintained  the  right  to  move  positions  from                                                                  
classified  service   to  exempt  service.     He  maintained,                                                                  
however,  that  passing a  statute  during a  contract  period                                                                  
moving  positions  from  classified  to  exempt  status  would                                                                  
impair the  contract status.   He recalled that positions  had                                                                  
been moved in the past.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Duncan  questioned  the  policy  reason  for  moving  the                                                                  
positions.   He  asked if  the issue  was rate  of pay  rather                                                                  
than policy.   He spoke  in support of  raising salaries.   He                                                                  
suggested that  to impair a contract was in conflict  with the                                                                  
Alaska  Constitution.   He suggested  that there  should  be a                                                                  
systematic way of amending a job class.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:37:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch asked  what the  legal  problem  was                                                                  
with this  method.  Mr. Duncan  pointed to the process  in the                                                                  
contract,  which allows  for positions  to be  moved within  a                                                                  
class, but to do the move by statute is prohibited.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch followed  by  asking   if  the  main                                                                  
issue from  a management  view was to  hire positions  quickly                                                                  
and if the process  was otherwise too cumbersome.   Mr. Duncan                                                                  
again asked  if the goal was to  pay more money. He  suggested                                                                  
that there was  a process that could be started  to reclassify                                                                  
and amend  the pay  plan.   He maintained  that the  situation                                                                  
was not so critical as to impair the contract process.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch asked  if it  was possible  to  open                                                                  
one  segment to  address  this issue.   Mr.  Duncan  commented                                                                  
that in discussions  with Mr. Chance, he had suggested  adding                                                                  
three additional  levels of salary and to pay  the same amount                                                                  
as in exempt service.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:40:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker asked  if to open  a pay plan  could be                                                                  
restricted  to certain jobs,  or if it  would set a  precedent                                                                  
for  others seeking  to raise  their  pay scale.   Mr.  Duncan                                                                  
responded  that  the pay  plan  would only  be  opened to  add                                                                  
three  ranges.   That  would give  latitude  to reexamine  pay                                                                  
scale.  He referred  to reclassification within  job families.                                                                  
He noted that  there should be  care given to which  jobs were                                                                  
compared.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker commented on the level  of belligerence                                                                  
on  the part  of  the administration,  but  expressed  concern                                                                  
over  raising the  level of  pay scale  for  all job  classes.                                                                  
Mr. Duncan noted  that paying a higher rate in  exempt service                                                                  
was  also possible  in  classified  service,  as long  as  the                                                                  
proper process is followed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker reiterated his offense  at the tenor of                                                                  
the  letter  from  the  administration,  and  again  expressed                                                                  
concern over opening up a job classification.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:43:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula observed that even if  the entire job                                                                  
family were  raised, jobs still  needed to be considered  case                                                                  
by case.   Mr.  Duncan concurred,  and added  that he did  not                                                                  
negotiate  ranges, but  rather overall  percentage  increases.                                                                  
He also noted that  it would not open the way  to moving other                                                                  
positions into Ranges 28, 29,30.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:45:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch observed that the policy  choice was                                                                  
whether to  create a  new classification  range, or to  simply                                                                  
move  positions into  exempt  service.   He  asked if  another                                                                  
bill  is needed  to accomplish  the  new ranges.   Mr.  Duncan                                                                  
replied that  that is  bargainable and  a letter of  agreement                                                                  
could be  signed.  Representative  Weyhrauch questioned  if it                                                                  
was a  good public  policy decision  to bump specialized  jobs                                                                  
or high demand  positions out of exempt classification.    Mr.                                                                  
Duncan  agreed  that  this  was  the   central  question,  and                                                                  
maintained  he had not  been satisfied  with the argument  for                                                                  
creating the exempt status.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:46:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker asked if anything prevented  crafting a                                                                  
law to  allow additional  salary  ranges in  only certain  job                                                                  
classifications.    Mr.  Duncan  observed  that this  was  the                                                                  
affect of  creating exempt  positions.   He noted that  it was                                                                  
not appropriate  for the legislature  to change the  pay plan,                                                                  
as  it  was  subject  to  collective  bargaining.    He  again                                                                  
cautioned that  the policy decision  to move the positions  to                                                                  
exempt service would set a difficult precedent.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:48:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly asked for  clarification  about  whether                                                                  
the Attorney  General agreed with  Mr. Duncan's definition  of                                                                  
the contract process,  and whether it was within  the right of                                                                  
management to change the pay scale.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Duncan stated  that he would advocate adding  three ranges                                                                  
to the pay scale  for all bargaining units.  He  noted that it                                                                  
would require  using the  process available  to challenge  the                                                                  
statute.   He stressed that he  did not wish to challenge  it,                                                                  
but  felt  clearly   compelled  by  the  Constitution   as  it                                                                  
pertains to contracts.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:51:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MILA  COSGROVE, DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF PERSONNEL,  DEPARTMENT                                                                  
OF ADMINISTRATION  and  ART CHANCE,  DIRECT, LABOR  RELATIONS,                                                                  
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, testified regarding the bill.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  asked  whether  time  was  critical   in  this                                                                  
matter.   Mr. Chance  responded that  public policy  decisions                                                                  
were made  in the Department  of Revenue,  and stated  that he                                                                  
was  not  concerned with  the  time,  but  the manner  of  the                                                                  
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Cosgrove  verified  that the  Department was  not able  to                                                                  
recruit the personnel  needed within the existing  pay plan to                                                                  
accomplish the work forthcoming.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:53:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  asked whether  pharmacists  and  high-                                                                  
grade  accountants,   since  they  shared  a   high  level  of                                                                  
independence,  could  be recruited  privately.   Ms.  Cosgrove                                                                  
stated her  understanding  that pharmacists  must be hired  by                                                                  
the  Department,   although  she   conceded  that   they  were                                                                  
occasionally hired  on a contract basis.  She  maintained that                                                                  
hiring on  a contract basis was  not a good business  practice                                                                  
in the state.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker  asked  if  it  was  possible   as  an                                                                  
immediate  solution,  to   hire  on  a  contract  basis  while                                                                  
bargaining representatives  sought a long-term  solution.  Mr.                                                                  
Chance   commented  that   many  disputes   resulted  in   the                                                                  
contracting  out  of  employees.   He  conceded  that  it  may                                                                  
result in a cost  savings, but questioned whether  it could be                                                                  
done within  correct public  policy.   He emphasized  the need                                                                  
for a public policy decision.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:57:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly reiterated his question  over whether it                                                                  
was  a management  right to  decide and  if it  could be  done                                                                  
immediately.    Mr.  Chance  responded   that,  in  the  past,                                                                  
positions  had been moved  to exempt  service, and that  there                                                                  
was  language allowing  for  it.   He gave  the  example of  a                                                                  
vacancy, and  noted that the  right existed within  a contract                                                                  
to  move a  position.   He  admitted  that they  would  oppose                                                                  
moving the  positions within a  job classification  after they                                                                  
had become  exempt, since they  would become a different  body                                                                  
with  different legal  rights.   He noted  that this  question                                                                  
had not been  answered by any  court, although there  had been                                                                  
disputes  in  past years.    He  stated  that it  was  unclear                                                                  
whether a "contract  bar" existed to prevent moving  positions                                                                  
from classified to exempt.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:59:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly summarized  that   a  management   right                                                                  
existed  and that  it  could occur  immediately.   Mr.  Chance                                                                  
stated  that the management  right  existed with  legislators.                                                                  
He conceded  that since  the positions  were vacant,  a debate                                                                  
could ensue.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:00:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  asked  if  the  wage  increase  were                                                                  
accomplished,  whether  it  would  solve  the  problem.    Ms.                                                                  
Cosgrove  noted that  the  issue was  more  complicated.   She                                                                  
pointed out  the need to compete  with the private  market for                                                                  
these types  of positions.   She also  noted that  pharmacists                                                                  
are primarily in  the supervisory unit and not  represented by                                                                  
Mr.  Duncan's   union.    She  pointed  out  that   classified                                                                  
employees  are  subject  to various  criterion,  and  that  by                                                                  
applying these  criterion to pharmacists, they  were currently                                                                  
accurately classified  at their  salary rate.  She  noted that                                                                  
to  move  a  position   by  seven  salary  ranges   creates  a                                                                  
precedent   problem,  rather   than   seeking  other   medical                                                                  
professions  to create  a new  precedent for  paying a  higher                                                                  
salary.  She  stated that she  does not believe this  could be                                                                  
accomplished in the classified service.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:03:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch observed  that  if  these  positions                                                                  
were moved  to exempt  status, many of  the same issues  would                                                                  
still be  in play.   Ms. Cosgrove agreed  that to some  extent                                                                  
that is correct.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Cosgrove  spoke to  good  qualifications  and  licensing.                                                                  
Representative  Weyhrauch said  they would  not be  encumbered                                                                  
by the  collective bargaining  agreement.   Ms. Cosgrove  said                                                                  
correct.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:05:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule  wondered  if exempts  run  the risk  of                                                                  
being  left  out   by  a  new  administration.     Mr.  Chance                                                                  
addressed  the mythology  about exempt  status.  Teachers  are                                                                  
exempt  because  of rights  under  Title  14.   Alaska  Marine                                                                  
Highway  employees are  exempt  because they  were  originally                                                                  
hired out  of Seattle.  Most exempts  are so far removed  from                                                                  
ranges 5-30,  that they can't  be paid without distorting  the                                                                  
scale.  Addressing  the status  of  being  released  by a  new                                                                  
administration,  Mr. Chance reported that almost  no "at will"                                                                  
employees  exist.   Division  directors,  special  assistants,                                                                  
and some  partially exempt  employees can  be dismissed  - the                                                                  
rest have to have probable cause.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly asked if  exempt people could  organize.                                                                  
Mr. Chance  said they could.   Representative Joule  asked how                                                                  
many people  it takes to organize.   Mr. Chance reported  that                                                                  
there is  no numerical  limit.  A  community of interest  must                                                                  
be demonstrated.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:09:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  addressed the fiscal notes:  zero  fiscal note                                                                  
#1  by the  Department  of Commerce,  Community  and  Economic                                                                  
Development,   fiscal   note   #3   by   the   Department   of                                                                  
Corrections,  three  new  indeterminate  fiscal notes  by  the                                                                  
Department   of  Health  and   Social  Services,  and   a  new                                                                  
indeterminate fiscal note by the Department of Revenue.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:10:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault  commented on  the  fiscal  notes: all  are                                                                  
zero  for this  year, but  indeterminate  for next  year.   He                                                                  
pointed out the certainty of costs in the future.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  said  the bill  was  set  aside in  hopes  of                                                                  
organizing  a collective bargaining  process, but that  didn't                                                                  
happen.   The legislature  needs  to take action  soon on  the                                                                  
bill, but it needs additional discussion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:13:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Foster  MOVED  to   REPORT  HB  485   out  of                                                                  
Committee    with   individual    recommendations   and    the                                                                  
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Hawker  OBJECTED.     Representative   Hawker                                                                  
maintained that  he has heard no  solution for this  issue and                                                                  
that  there  would   be  litigation.    He  said   he  is  not                                                                  
comfortable  with  this  bill.    He  suggested  that  raising                                                                  
classifications   could  accomplish  the  same   goal  without                                                                  
litigation.   He said  he is not endorsing  labor's side,  but                                                                  
taking the least risky route.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote  was taken on  the motion  to REPORT  HB 485                                                                  
out of committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR: Holm, Kelly, Stoltze, Foster, Chenault, Meyer                                                                         
OPPOSED: Hawker, Joule, Kerttula, Moses, Weyhrauch                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (6-5).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB   485  was   REPORTED   out  of   Committee   with  a   "no                                                                  
recommendation"   and  with  zero   fiscal  note  #1   by  the                                                                  
Department  of Commerce, Community  and Economic  Development,                                                                  
fiscal note  #3 by  the Department of  Corrections, three  new                                                                  
indeterminate  fiscal notes  by the Department  of Health  and                                                                  
Social Services,  and a new  indeterminate fiscal note  by the                                                                  
Department of Revenue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch concurred  with Co-Chair  Chenault's                                                                  
concerns about future costs related to this bill.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:17:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 447                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to the use of broadcasting to promote                                                                     
     raffles and lotteries."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CRAIG   JOHNSON,   STAFF,   REPRESENTATIVE    LESIL   MCGUIRE,                                                                  
explained  the  bill.   The  bill  levels  the  playing  field                                                                  
between broadcast  advertising and  the print media  regarding                                                                  
the advertising  of lawful "charitable  gaming activity".   He                                                                  
referred to examples  of newspaper advertisements  in members'                                                                  
packets.   Currently,  an FCC rule  does not  allow for  those                                                                  
types of activities  to be advertised on radio  or television.                                                                  
The FCC states  that local communities can dictate  whether or                                                                  
not  they   can  be  advertised   on  broadcast  media.     He                                                                  
emphasized that the bill will not increase gaming.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:19:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  asked  why  the words  "other  than                                                                  
animal  classics"  are  needed  in this  bill.    Mr.  Johnson                                                                  
replied  that it was  an amendment  added by  a member  of the                                                                  
Labor and Commerce Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze  clarified  that  the  animal  classic                                                                  
bill did not provide for advertising.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Johnson said he was referring to previous legislation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:21:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
At-ease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:24:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VICKI  MUZIK,  KRMJ  RADIO,  KETCHIKAN,   concurred  with  Mr.                                                                  
Johnson's  statements.    She  related  that  the  bill  is  a                                                                  
platform  to level the  playing field.   The non-profits  that                                                                  
are  seeking to  raise money  are not  gambling  institutions.                                                                  
She testified in favor of the bill.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
RIC  SCHMIDT,  GENERAL  MANAGER,  KNOM-AM/FM,  NOME,  reported                                                                  
that   his  hands   are  tied   when  it   comes  to   helping                                                                  
organizations  raise  funds  for  charity.   He  testified  in                                                                  
support of  the bill.   He asked the  legislators to  "help us                                                                  
help them", referring to the non-profits.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster noted that  there are many  raffles for                                                                  
the needy, which can't be aired.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze asked if the  bill could be used  as a                                                                  
revenue source.   Mr. Schmidt said it could be  used for that,                                                                  
especially for  non-profits.  He said he is not  talking about                                                                  
a lot  of money.   He spoke  of the Rotary  Duck Race  and the                                                                  
scholarships it supports.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:31:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault asked  if Mr. Schmidt  does public  service                                                                  
announcements.   Mr. Schmidt  said if there  is a raffle  they                                                                  
can't mention it.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:32:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS BOOKEY,  MORRIS COMMUNICATIONS, ANCHORAGE,  agreed with                                                                  
the previous testimony  and spoke in support of  the bill.  He                                                                  
pointed  out that  some of  the gaming  events are  part  of a                                                                  
bigger event.   Broadcasters are not asking to  change gaming,                                                                  
just the promotion of it.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze  asked   if  advertising  to  increase                                                                  
participation  would increase  gambling.   Mr. Bookey  replied                                                                  
that  it could  help increase  the funds  going to  non-profit                                                                  
organizations.    Representative  Stoltze  inferred  that  Mr.                                                                  
Bookey is also talking about bingo halls.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:34:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STUART WHYTE, KFMJ  RADIO, KETCHIKAN, testified  in support of                                                                  
the bill.   He emphasized  that radio  is looking for  a level                                                                  
playing  field.    Right  now,  raffles   not  allowed  to  be                                                                  
advertised.   The bill  would allow  charitable events  to run                                                                  
at good times during the day.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster  asked  if  there are  only  two  radio                                                                  
stations  in Nome.  One  can accept  paid advertising  and one                                                                  
can't.  He  asked if that is  correct.  Mr. Schmidt  said that                                                                  
is  correct.    The  stations  are  very  competitive  on  the                                                                  
commercial  side,  but  very  cooperative  when  it  comes  to                                                                  
public interest.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:37:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze asked if the expense limitation  comes                                                                  
out of the 30 percent amount that charities receive.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JEFF  PRATHER,  GAMING  GROUP,  TAX  DIVISION,  DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                  
REVENUE,  said  it  would  have   no  effect  on  the  expense                                                                  
limitation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Stoltze  asked   if  the  bill  would   allow                                                                  
interactive gaming.   Mr. Prather replied that  the bill would                                                                  
allow   raffles  to   be   promoted  over   broadcast   media.                                                                  
Representative  Stoltze repeated  the question.   Mr.  Prather                                                                  
said he did not see that happening.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:39:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  asked if  there is  any analysis  of                                                                  
inequities  between broadcast  and print  media.  Mr.  Prather                                                                  
said no.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze noted sympathy  for fund-raisers,  but                                                                  
cautioned  about  gambling  and  gaming.   He  voiced  concern                                                                  
about politics in gaming.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  spoke  in support  of  the  bill.   He                                                                  
offered Conceptual  Amendment 1, to remove on  page 1, line 7,                                                                  
the section on  "other than animal classics".   There being NO                                                                  
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze MOVED  to adopt  Conceptual  Amendment                                                                  
2, on page  1, line 8, to add  the words "if the  broadcasting                                                                  
is limited  to public service  announcements provided  free of                                                                  
charge   by   a  broadcaster   to   a   permittee"   following                                                                  
"broadcasting".                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:46:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
At-ease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:51:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker OBJECTED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Stoltze spoke to his amendment.   He addressed                                                                  
a  concern.     Representative  Stoltze  WITHDREW   Conceptual                                                                  
Amendment 2.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster MOVED to  report CSHB 447 (FIN)  out of                                                                  
Committee,  as amended,  with individual  recommendations  and                                                                  
the accompanying fiscal note.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  OBJECTED.   He  questioned why  the                                                                  
bill is necessary.  He WITHDREW his OBJECTION.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CSHB  447 was  REPORTED  out of  Committee  with  a "do  pass"                                                                  
recommendation   and  with   zero  fiscal   note  #1   by  the                                                                  
Department of Revenue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:56:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 475                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An   Act   describing  contributions   to   the   health                                                                  
     reimbursement  arrangement plan for certain  teachers and                                                                  
     public employees;  clarifying eligibility  for membership                                                                  
     in that health  reimbursement arrangement  plan; relating                                                                  
     to   the  'administrator'   of   the  Public   Employees'                                                                  
     Retirement  System   of  Alaska;  and  providing  for  an                                                                  
     effective date."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HB 475 was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 470                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act  relating to the  mandatory use of motor  vehicle                                                                  
     headlights."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB 470 was POSTPONED to a later date.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 308                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
      "An Act relating to false caller identification."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 308 was WAIVED out of Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The  meeting  was recessed  at  3:56  PM until  8:30  tomorrow                                                                  
morning.                                                                                                                        

Document Name Date/Time Subjects